«There are many ways of reaching Europe legally»

 

A member of the House of Representatives in the Netherlands for five years, Marit Maij has worked in the European Parliament and the Dutch embassies in Costa Rica and Beijing. She also studied on the UOC's master's degree programme in Human Rights, Democracy and Globalization and even with this impressively stacked CV, she still finds time to work with a small NGO to teach Dutch to new arrivals. This is maybe why, when she was asked to take part in the Alumni Madrid 2019 Conference, she chose to talk about a subject she knows well: migrant and refugee minors.

 

 

A member of the House of Representatives in the Netherlands for five years, Marit Maij has worked in the European Parliament and the Dutch embassies in Costa Rica and Beijing. She also studied on the UOC's master's degree programme in Human Rights, Democracy and Globalization and even with this impressively stacked CV, she still finds time to work with a small NGO to teach Dutch to new arrivals. This is maybe why, when she was asked to take part in the Alumni Madrid 2019 Conference, she chose to talk about a subject she knows well: migrant and refugee minors.

 

They are all different. We talk a lot about groups and flows of migrants, we look for global solutions, but we forget that they are also individuals and that we need to look for small solutions for every one of them.

The official figure is 250 million, according to the International Organization for Migration. However, that includes both someone who's fallen in love with someone from another country and decided to go and live with them, as well as people who migrate for social and economic reasons because they don't have the means to live in their own country. Another interesting aspect is that, contrary to what we are led to believe, half of migrants are actually women.

No, but there are lots of children in the refugee camps. I always give the example of the Zaatari camp in Jordan where many Syrians who arrived after 2011 live, and almost 20% of them are under the age of five.

For the children, the environment is very often quite welcoming. When we listen to public discourse, we tend to think that people aren't so open towards refugees or migrants, but if we look at it in more detail, we can see that there are many people in Europe willing to welcome anyone who needs protection and help.

A normal pace of life, routines. In Athens, I spoke to a 17-year-old boy who came from Afghanistan. He'd been born in a refugee camp in Iran, his parents had stayed and he'd been travelling for three years. And I imagine that before that, he didn't have any security or set daily routine either. What sort of future awaits a child or teenager like that? It's very important that they learn what a normal life is: to sleep at night, get up in the morning and have breakfast, go to school or work, have friends and not those superficial contacts they have while they're travelling... Otherwise, they're very vulnerable and there may be people who abuse them.

What's difficult is to see how we in Europe appreciate and value the situation in the countries of origin. For example, a refugee from Eritrea has more possibilities in some countries than in others despite having the same story and same journey. There are general criteria, but the application is different in each country; we still haven't been able to reach an agreement so that if that person has protection in Spain, they have the same protection in another country.

Yes, it's difficult to give them a routine and an environment of protection. Sometimes they have family in their countries of origin or in a camp if they're refugees. You have to ask what's best for that child: to be with their family in a country outside Europe but with people who speak their language and understand them, or to look for a future here. There is no one solution for all, and when they turn 18, they become adults and lose a lot of the protection they had. The most vulnerable ones are the ones aged between 15 and 20, because with small children, very often a support family is found, where straight away they learn, go to school, play with their classmates, etc. But they arrive deeply traumatized.

I don't know if it would be a solution. I understand the right every country has to know who's living in it. We need customs and borders to control who's coming in and why. There are also many ways of reaching Europe legally. The problem is that a lot of people don't know this or don't have the means to attain them. People-traffickers know how to offer their services. I know people who paid thousands and thousands of euros to get to the Netherlands, and it's a pity to spend all that capital to be in an illegal situation and then have to go back to your country because you don't have the right to residence or protection. We need to provide more information about the legal possibilities that exist.

I think it also has to do with other things, such as women's rights. It's a rare blend of conservatism, nationalism... It's not just against people from outside or who have another religion, as very often these same groups are against women's rights. They argue that women should be in the home, have children and not have the right to decide how many children to have or whether to have an abortion. Abortion is a right that is being discussed again, when ten years ago no one brought it up.

In the case of people who arrive illegally, women are more vulnerable because there's a lot of sexual exploitation. That's a huge risk, especially for women who come from African countries and end up in detention centres in Libya or in other transit countries. And the risk continues when they reach Europe. Many women who come from Nigeria, for example, think they're going to be working in a hotel or a restaurant. They know there's a risk, but they think it won't happen to them. The reality is that nearly all young Nigerian women, between the ages of 15 and 25, end up in illegal prostitution. They're horrific situations.

By informing in the place of origin, because nearly all of these women come from a very specific area of Nigeria, Edo State. I also recall talking to an NGO in Sicily. They had a group of Nigerian women who dealt with the new arrivals and gave them their telephone number. They told them to call them and not the people they'd been told to call in their country. It's a way of getting them out of the sexual exploitation networks. The work of the police is also very important in identifying centres of illegal prostitution and acting against them.

I think it's very interesting that a country like Spain is more egalitarian than the Netherlands. I think that in my country we're very advanced, we talk a lot and we have a lot of sexual freedom, but not in gender issues.

When you look at the number of women politicians, ministers, for example, it's greater here. Or women professors and directors. It's a very rare phenomenon. In the Netherlands, most women work part time, two or three days a week, which makes it harder to forge a career.

So-so. You always hear people saying if you have children, it's to look after them, not to take them to a nursery. It's very contradictory and we're moving very slowly. The problem of women working part time is that their financial independence is very low. It's said that just 50% of Dutch women are financially independent, and unfortunately 50% of marriages don't survive. As a result, separated women have problems. There's also the glass ceiling. According to the OECD, the Netherlands is in 23rd or 24th place. Spain's also much better there.

Yes. I studied in Barcelona between 1991 and 1992, and I saw then that the situation was different. Women working was seen as more normal, not a topic for discussion.

By law, we're equal throughout Europe, thanks to our parents, but now we need to fight against social pressure and everything that isn't law. In the Netherlands, we also have to improve paternity leave. When I had my children, my husband had two days off. Now it's five.