Eric Debarbieux
How would you define school violence?
School violence is not a spectacular form of violence, but a series of small-scale, repeated aggressions. It doesn't affect us all, just one in every ten students during their school days. However, in our minds we associate it with the massacres in the United States, where a young person enters the school shooting their friends and teachers. These situations are very rare. Also, since 1994, figures show that this type of brutal violence has decreased.
Is school violence a social, school, family or personal issue? What are its consequences?
It has three main types of consequences. On the one hand, school consequences, as it directly affects school absenteeism. One in every four students who have a record of chronic absenteeism do so out of fear. It affects good students most of all In fact, they suffer from it because they are good. In 1994, in a survey of victims of school violence, 29% of them said they were laughed at because they were good.
Does it only have an effect at academic level?
No, violence has a second type of consequence: emotional ones. I've spoken to people aged 50, who in their day were victims in school, and they're still suffering the consequences. People who were exposed as children or young people are at greater risk of suffering depression, psycho-sociological problems and even have a four-fold higher tendency towards suicide than those who didn't. And that's after all these years! The third type of consequence of school violence is associated with public safety. Some 75% of those who go on a shooting spree are victims: they arm themselves for protection and later on for revenge. We mustn't confuse school violence with delinquency initially. However, a lot of school bullies end up as delinquents. It has been shown that 40 years on, it is they who have greater levels of unemployment or are in worse considered and paid jobs. In the long run, the law of the strongest is the law of the loser. Both victims and bullies are the losers. They all the suffer the consequences for many years.
Has this type of violence increased in recent years?
I've conducted studies in Brazil, Chile, Spain and, primarily, France. In world terms, I don't believe there's been an increase. Few countries have reliable comparative figures for recent years to prove these changes. Perhaps the United States does and the figures show that severe violence has not increased. Friction or small-scale aggression has a bit. What has happened is that the nature of it has changed, at least in my country it has. There is more and more verbal aggression and spaces such as the internet have opened up more possibilities. Also, school violence is now a collective form of violence. In the past, the victim faced one bully. Now, seven or eight students act as a group against an individual.
Are these the only changes you've detected?
I also think it's interesting to show how, mainly in problem neighbourhoods, aggressions against teachers and education institutions have also increased. These are sensitive areas, where the police are attacked and infrastructures destroyed. It's paradoxical, but teachers and schools are also the enemy. I took part in a survey of 14,000 primary school teachers in France - pending publication - and 3,000 secondary school teachers - already published - and I can state that teachers are not victims of being hit or serious physical violence. Just 2% or 3% experience it in very specific schools and areas. But what is true is that some 10%, primarily in these neighbourhoods that we've mentioned, are subjected to verbal violence. They face a difficult school environment on a daily basis. The relationship between violence, environment and victimisation is very important. By not dealing with the environment, we won't make any changes to violent situations.
If neither experts nor studies detect this increase but yet society feels that this is how it is...does the media come into it at all? Does it contribute by dramatising this situation?
The media needs to gain the public's attention. That's why it concentrates on the worst, on the toughest stories. And what it does is give a false image of reality. For example, from 1960 to the present day, throughout the entire world, the number of massacres - events with more than three deaths - stands at 40. The fact is, they have been broadcast on TV and also on internet. Did you know that images are what people watch most on the Net? First, images of terrorism; second, tsunamis and third school massacres. Images of student-against-student violence.
Should we punish school violence?
Perhaps I would be in favour if punishment were effective. But that's not the case! I'm against it. We should promote certain attitudes, work to change behaviour, help much more to improve the situation rather than hand down punishment. Applying restorative justice has positive effects. Let me give you an example. A problem kid came before the judge, and the judge allowed him to choose 'his punishment': go to prison or community work. The boy chose community work: he accompanied the police for a time in their work, such as counting down-and-outs under the bridges of the Seine. This affected him: he realised that in time and if he didn't change, he could end up as one of them. Live like they did. The boy reacted and has rebuilt his academic life. It works. We tend to be reactive when we should be proactive.
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